A summary of the latest version of the Draft Fareham Deanery Ministry Plan can be downloaded by clicking HERE.

During March and April 2010 the Deanery Ministry Plan was presented in each of our eleven churches during a Sunday service. The last of these, at St Paul's Sarisbury Green, was recorded and is available to watch online. View it here.

Have you got comments to make on the Deanery Plan, or maybe questiosn to ask?

We welcome all comments or questions and the best place to make these is on our Online Discussion Forum where everyone else can share in your questions or comments and others may respond, either asking their own questions or maybe providing answers.

Our Online Forum is available HERE

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What do you find appealing in the plans for Fareham Deanery?

About people not buildings - hopefully reduce 'red tape' and top heavy Diocesan Office Staff.

Nothing. Your presentation did not seem to have much confidence in the plans, there was no opportunity for questions. Give your churchgoers some credit for havimg minds of their own.

I feel quite excited at the possibilities and opportunities the situation has opened up.  I’m all for ‘Working together’ and long to see full ministry for all within the Church.

A greater emphasis on responsibilities of all church members

Very little – if anything at all

We are getting more outward looking, hopefully creative ideas to help people realise God is relevant today

It is obvious there is an urgent need for some rearrangement due to loss of clergy and I welcome the attempt to find ways to address the issue.  Greater sharing of resources has to be the answer or to do it in a constructive way is good

Opportunities for more sharing and integration

The idea of team work by all members of the congregation BUT this MUST be controlled to ensure that some over-zealots do not teach the wrong message

That it could be very effective especially were it to be presented and treated in a more ‘inclusive’ way.  That the clusters are more logical and have a greater potential to work together effectively.

What concerns do you have about the plans for Fareham Deanery

Where are the 'losses' of 2.5 to occur? How do current plans deal with this trategically? i.e. in open discussion and consultation with relavent parishes?

If a Vicar (salaried) is running more than one church he is therefore part time in each church. People might not want to support him/her. Will this reduction mean a reduction in Quota? There was nothing mentioned about motivating churchgoers.

That the opportunity will be missed through getting bogged down in Administrative difficulties

The rise of personalities who love to rule the church

That it will become just another talking shop

People in the congregation today did not know what was going on unlike PCC members – Maybe an introduction to what the presentation was for

People who are on the periphery of a church fellowship may ‘get lost’ in the changes

They don’t make sense.  Holy Trinity and St Columba have now been separated and new parish Whiteley and then they are to be regrouped with others

Too many chiefs, not enough Indians!

That it is not a mere rearranging of the deck chairs as the Titanic sinks.  There has to be genuine engagement among rank and file members – not merely among the clergy and officers.  I hope ecclesiastical politics do not get in the way.

The already very heavy load on church wardens will increase.

a.    We must ensure that lay teachers are properly trained. We could get a chaotic result with everyone giving vent to their own pet prejudices.
b.     LEADERSHP must come from the top. I sincerely hope the new Bishop will provide this and reform some of the mediaeval organization throughout the Diocesan organization

Definitions – many people have an understanding of what is meant by ministry just as many think it means the priesthood but does the hard working core of the Laity understand (and some of the priesthood) realise?  Does the person who faithfully delivers the Church magazine or who makes the tea and cakes for the tea parities for the bereaved is a ministry – let alone the person who is a member of the pastoral team?  I suggest that ‘ministry’ is not generally understood in all its diversity and if it’s not the plan could shoot itself in the foot. The problem will be making the ‘them’ and the ‘us’ become ‘we’.  This is an ongoing problem with the clergy and their concerns and the Laity with their concerns.
I say with great respect that past experience has shown that clergy only want to dance to their tune wile many of the laity have very sincere and valuable thoughts. These thoughts can be viewed as a threat when they might well be a God given resource.
The presentation suggests that this could be worked on – even at this stage – more effectively.

Can you see ways in which we could improve upon the plans?

Reduce Diocesan paid staff. Streamline paperwork & admin that parishes need to do - centralise in each cluster.

Employ a proper management consultant. The Anglican Church has wasted 500 years during which time the church has not learn't how to handle change. Find someone from outside who has.

Let’s think BIG!! We have a great God with whom nothing is impossible

Make plans for clusters of parishes quickly and firmly to avoid uncertainty

There is plenty of time to set about recruiting people to the ministry

They look fairly well thought through – although obviously there will inevitably be hurdles!

There needs to be good cooperation between the ‘stronger’ and the ‘weaker’ churches at congregational level – sharing of gifts, abilities on a practical basis.  I was concerned that so much Anglican terminology was used in the presentation.  The reps were good – but a lot went over my head.

Think ecumenically

A Reorganise the method of incumbent selection to avoid anomalies such as ST Peter’s Titchfield congregation in the Diocese of Portsmouth but being in the ‘Gift’ of the Dean of Winchester (whatever that is?!)
B there should be an ‘Establishments Committee’ with power to prune and reorganize within the Diocese.

Also by recognizing that the people who stay on to hear presentations will ‘by and large’ be the committed 7 day a week Christian and some of whom are on ‘overload’ with church duties.

What questions or concerns would you like members of the Deanery Council to address?  Please give your contact details.

Show how strategically parishes will be involved in 'losing' their clergy and how their parish will then function.

What training and other means of equipping lay people will there be?

I will miss the authority of a vicar giving a sermon

How can Lay Readers and others be expected to fill the role of clergy.  They often have jobs and not the same commitment.

Nothing was mentioned about relating to other non-Anglican churches in the area.

1.    It is fine for us to propose reorganize ‘bottom up’ but top down from Bishop downwards (hitherto sadly lacking) should give us the policy on which to base our proposals.
2.    The Diocesan organization is mediaeval having evolved from the days and whims of the Lords and wealthy landowners; it should be constantly changing to reflect modern needs, for example:-
3.    A.  It appears that the Bishop has limited powers to control the activities or inactivities of ineffective priests (Thank goodness there are very few of these.  Most priests do a superb job)
B. While appreciating that time is required for the selection of a new vicar after his predecessor has left, does this really apply to the appointment of a new Bishop?  WE have known for ages that our Bishop was retiring – why cannot Canterbury have a list of potential Bishops ready to expedite replacement?
c. The current mood is negative and assuming contraction of the C of E.  I would  like to see initiatives that are more positive in recruiting more paid priests:
Conclusion.  There is a lot to be done to reorganize the C of E.  I suggest on hierarchical lines and based on strong leadership from the top.  I admit that some of my expressed opinions are based on ignorance but a lot of the traditional organization requires extensive review.

Maybe ‘think tanks’ within the proposed clusters to get things up and running to inspire and engage and enthuse!

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Question: Which are the churches in the Deanery which have chosen not to take part in this process?
Answer: No churches have taken that decision

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Question: If a Vicar decides to give up his living and go onto a five year contract with the Deanery (I appreciate I may have the wrong terminology but I am sure you get the gist) is this any business of his/her Parish (and would they need to give permission) and would they be told that is the situation?
Answer: There will be no such thing under Common Tenure as time limited contracts except in rare situations like externally funded posts or training or probationary posts.  It is a Vicar's decision and would not invoved consultation with the parish.  I believe parishes will know whether their Vicar is on freehold or Common Tenure.

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Comment:
I will be honest, I don't find the plans appealing, because I would rather stay in a comfort zone!!

Nothing particularly concerns me about them at the moment, and I can't see ways of improving them at this stage. Further down the line we shall have to deal with issues as they arise.

At St John's we have been prepared for this by the hard work of our previous incumbent who has brought us to the point where we have a great deal of lay involvement and a good Leadership Team, plus a ministry plan which divides up the church's areas of ministry and identifies lay leaders who are responsible for these areas. ( I am sure you know all this already!)

We are very blessed in having a large number of people in our congregation who are well able to assume leadership roles, and/or have particular gifts in music, youth work, artisitic ability and so on.  In conversation with those from other churches, I realise this afresh, and am aware that some churches are not so fortunate. I guess that one of the challenges for the future for us in St John's will be to share our lay talent as well as our clergy! I can see quite a number of issues to be worked through there.

Response:
Thank you very much for this, reading what you say there were many echoes of life here in Crofton where we have a long legacy of collaborative ministry and lay leadership - indeed you and us seeing ourselves as in some ways a resource to other parishes is a big part of the challenge that faces us.